Background: Prologue:
From the book:

Also as Audiofile

UNKNOWN BUT KNOWN

MY ADVENTURE INTO THE MEDITATIVE DIMENSION

by Arthur Ford (1879-1971)
"The silent Elijah"

The exciting, explosive revelations of the world's leading medium,
who put bishop Pike in touch with his son on "the other side"

A SIGNET BOOK from New American Library

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 68-29570





(Fletcher is Fords contact in the spiritual world)




The Sun Myung
Moon Sittings

Sometimes the course of my work seems to recapitulate some of the day. Such a sequence developed around the person of the Korean sage Sun Myung Moon.

Consider some of the ferments currently brewing. Reincarnation, a theme left severely alone by many generations of scholars, is currently having a considerable vogue. Several new books on the subject have appeared. Dr. Ian Stevenson resigned the chairmanship of psychiatry at the University of Virginia to investigate the hundreds of cases reported from the Middle East. "Of the 150 cases I've studied so far," he reports, "I haven't found a single fake." Professors E. E. Bernard of North Carolina State and Charles T. Tart of the University of California are doing studies of out - of body experiences where people have been shown to be in two places at the same time. An enormous volume of material has appeared in the press on the subject of possible communication with inhabitants of other galaxies. Meditation, in one form or another, has received unprecedented publicity of late. The dissolution and death of old gods and old institutions has also been a theme frequently heard.

Can anyone deny that world revolution, class and border warfare, and civil disturbance have been almost daily in the public eye? Astrology, until recently a dead subject, is booming, with responsible scientists now conceding that there may be "something to" certain of the astrologers' claims. The end - of - an - era theme, the idea of a new start for mankind in the approaching year 2000, cannot have escaped the attention of even the most casual reader. And the idea of ecumenicity, a world agreement among men on principles of living together, has taken hold of most of those, both religious and secular, who dare to look at the world as a whole.

Would it not seem at least a little unusual if all these themes were to be explored in some depth in a short sequence of two Sittings? As I read through the transcript of the tape recordings of the Sun Myung Moon sittings, it seemed to me quite out of the ordinary. Moreover, these sittings provide another opportunity to check the precognition of Fletcher and his co - workers on the "other side." Will the sayings of Mr. Moon achieve the predicted popularity over the next decade or so? Here are significant excerpts from the verbatim record:

* * * * * * * * *

Sitting with Arthur Ford, November 2, 1964

Present: Mr. Anthony Brooke of England, for whom the sitting was held; Mr. Walter Voelker, the Rev. W. V. Rauscher, the Rev. Robert Lewis.

Fletcher: (interpreting for Cyril Arlington, former headmaster of Eton College): "I got to know Conan Doyle and I couldn't have disagreed with him more completely than I did about spirits. But now I find that it's easier for me to accommodate myself to this method because of the things I remember. It all comes back like the tide. I am very grateful I am able to communicate. I am grateful that you [Anthony Brooke] are taking your place. You know that we used to boast that the British Empire was really organised by boys from Eton. Now it seems to me that in the New Age, in which you are moving, it is not going to be necessary for Eton or anyone else to provide generals and that sort of thing. But we are probably the same brains who helped organize the Kingdom d the British Empire may be very useful in ushering in the Kingdom of God on earth - and that's far more important. Do you understand?"

Anthony Brooke: I do, indeed.

Fletcher: And its God's way. It always starts like the - I don't know - if I had a blackboard I would draw a picture for you. (This man is a very clear thinker, but he is hard to interpret, you see.) I would draw a picture - it looks like a pyramid - like a triangle - on the blackboard. Now at the top there emerges a teacher - it may have been Abraham - it may have been Moses or it may have been Jesus - or it may have been any one of the great religious leaders. First, there's a solitary figure - then it gradually extends until it spreads out - and that is the symbol. It is from above and has a broad base firmly grounded. And so that has been God's way of making himself known to his people in every generation.

He has with him here a man who, he tells me, was from Denmark. Tells me that he spent over half of his lifetime in Korea. He says that he not only translated the New Testament into the Korean language but also was the first one to make the English - Korean dictionary.

Anthony Brooke: Could you possible get his name?

Fletcher: Yes, it's ... his name is Peter, but it's spelled P - i - e - t - e - r, Pieter Alexander. He came to this country as a child, was educated here, went to Korea around the turn of the century, came back when the invasion took place, and then returned after freedom was declared. And then at a very advanced age he says, "I graduated into this life."

But the point in coming he says, is that in company with two friends of mine, George Wynn and his wife, who also spent many, many years in that land, I met and talked with this remarkable person who seems to be winning the devotion of a great many people who we had thought were securely anchored in the churches which we had organised. There was something about him that made me feel I was in the presence of a person who was sent by God. I had never been able to quite understand the widespread idea about rebirth or a spirit incarnating again in an earthly body.

And then in our conversation with - they called him Mr. Moon - he gave me what I think is the most logical as well as the most scriptural and probably the true explanation. Spirits on this side progress, but their progression is helped or hindered by things done or undone on the earth plane. And since we find in every human being a quality of God akin to that which we possess, we are able, even though the person is not conscious of it, to work through earthly instruments. And that is the true explanation of the coming of the Holy Spirit.

The Whole Spirit individualizes, separates itself into different parts, but never separates itself from the source. But it can blend with a thing that corresponds to its own nature. Practically everyone on the earth plane is in some fashion being used, either as a means of helping someone here to progress, or to help someone on the earth plane to speak the Word or do the thing that is necessary. It is a sort of universal power, like electric current.

Here you have a great big bulb, maybe 100 watts, and there is a 60 - watt - then there is a small one - then there are little tiny ones. Each one of these represents a degree of culture or civilization on the earth, and each one reflects as much of the universal current as that particular bulb is able to incorporate and make manifest. And Mr. Moon told me that he did not believe that reincarnation was true or was a fact, in the sense that a spirit entered into and became completely bound up in the physical organism of another person.

God does individualize in that person but nearly every person is carrying around what the psychotherapist (or the psychiatrist would say is an obsession - but Mr. Moon insists that it is an incarnation. It may last for a while or it may be for a lifetime. It all depends upon the dedication of the person and the task that is to be accomplished.

Then there is a highly sensitive person, and he becomes the vehicle which is used either permanently or periodically by a spirit from high planes. He takes on some of the personality and some of the characteristics of that spirit until he begins to act like it. And then his own consciousness absorbs the knowledge which is passing through him in some cases: "I am Moses," or I am this, or I am that, and to some extent he may be. But that is what is meant by the coming of the Spirit of Truth. It is, and he made it clear to me that the more highly evolved a person becomes spiritually the more impersonal he becomes in the sense that, like St. Paul said, "I died that Christ may live" and then at another time he said, "I die daily."

And Mr. Moon made it clear that every man who is seeking spiritual growth or understanding has to die - because in dying it means you are pushing - (not physical death, that's of no moment whatever) - your selfishness, your desires, your egocentric being is daily pushed further and further away from the center of your being so that the spiritual impulse that seeks to express itself through you can become manifest.

And there is no happiness that can transcend the happiness of death - the death of selfish interest, personal self - centered desires, and all those things which are causing man to be, even while in the body, earth - bound more truly than he could be even when he is free from the physical body. That is true happiness - to become part of the Universal Mind and Heart and to express it.

And so a person may very well say, "I know I have lived before," because he is acting under the guidance of a person, who has lived on earth and who now lives through him. And if you read your Bible with understanding, you will know that "the end of the age" not "the end of the earth" (for there will be no physical destruction of the age - a type of civilization) will ultimately result in a supracivilization, which may be what you mean by the Kingdom of God.

But at the end of the age from which you are just emerging you enter a New Age. It was said that there would be many false Christs and many people would claim to be what they were not and they would lead the people astray in many directions. And those are the people who are just as real as the rest of us, but who have for some reason refused to accept the spiritual heritage which they had a right to claim.

Mr. Moon says a person - a psychic or a medium who may be controlled by an entity who hasn't been here very long and who probably is still expressing and trying to validate some of the things that she believed while on earth - may look at you and become aware of a personality that is more than you are at this moment - at this particular hour of your life. She may get the idea that she is dealing with another incarnation. There is no reincarnation in the sense that there is a law which drives people back over and over again, but there is a law of correspondence. And when Jesus said, "It is necessary that I go, because if I (and the word 'I' as he used it meant 'I' the limited ego, which you know as your friend Jesus) - if I do not go the Spirit of Truth cannot come." In other words, he knew that he could only manifest in the highest and truest sense and speak the final truth, the spiritual truth, when he was no longer handicapped by personality - when he was no longer limited to the recognition on the part of his friends that he was just Jesus of Nazareth.

They could not always know that there was something more than the carpenter's son. There was something using him. And that is what I meant when I said, "The things that I do you could do, because I will send the Whole Spirit - the Spirit out from the top - until it envelops and involves all those who are ready to receive it." And that was the only time I ever really understood the Oriental preoccupation with the idea of rebirth. Rebirth is a spiritual thing. The spirit uses physical instruments, but is not limited to them.

Pieter Alexander says, "George Wynn was with me and Lillian Wynn was with me when we met him. Because I was fluent in the language and different dialects I was able to understand what he meant. I did not mean to stay so long, but I wanted to - tell you that because I saw these young clergymen here."

Anthony Brooke: Could you say anything about the significance of Mr. Moon in relation to any other individual in the flesh today?

Fletcher: You mean in interpersonal relationships?

Anthony Brooke: What can you tell us about Sun Myung Moon?

Fletcher: His mission is as a teacher, a revealer. At the end of an age always there must be a few, sometimes even one, who will become the voice of this Intelligence - Creative Mind - which you call God. Its relationship is to the rest of the world what that of many have been - in the past. Abraham spoke and became the voice of God for a tribe. Moses spoke and became the voice of God for a nation. Jesus spoke and became the voice of God for the whole world. But the Anointed One cannot die - God cannot die. And the effort that is necessary now and the divine purpose for which Mr. Moon (is) brought into your consciousness is simply stated in this way, "It is necessary (he is the voice of inspiration, guidance) to restore to mankind an understanding of his full nature and his relationship to God."

And out of the shambles of a crumbling civilization and above the cries of distress that you hear in every part of your world today, there is a plan slowly and definitely unfolding to restore man to the state of perfection which is necessary if he is to live happily and handle wisely the instruments that materialistic science has wrested from this mysterious and growing universe.

Restoration not of anything of the past simply because it belongs to the past, but restoration of the basic truths out of which all civilizations and all religions have grown.

There have been many and each one of them has been solitary until he has touched and inspired others - and gradually the pyramid spread out. He is not the first, nor the last. But for the present moment he is, in my estimation a most important spiritual light that shines in the darkness of your confused world....

And he has the rare quality of projecting himself, which isn't a miracle really. It's simply an employment of techniques which swamis, yogis, and holy men have known and which the saints have known for projection until you become real and visible to your devotees or people whom you need in order to further the kingdom. Mr. Moon in deep meditation can project himself and be seen just as Jesus has been able to project himself and be seen by the saints. This is one of the marks - of the messiahs always.

Walter Voelker: What can we ourselves do to help?

Fletcher: Hear the word and do not allow tradition to blind you to revelation. You must remember that every person that comes with revelation that threatens the selfish interests of people entrenched in anything on earth is going to be persecuted. But we know here that when a person burns another at the stake, or crucifies him or hangs him, it is because unconsciously the spirit within him is telling him that the person he is crucifying is right. But he cannot afford to admit that because he has accepted the persecutor - hangman - the crucifier - as maintaining traditional beliefs.

And so whenever you find anyone persecuting another person you know that the one who is persecuting is doing it in order to keep himself from admitting the truth. And he is killing the one who threatens his security, because the inquisitor is always unsure. He is guilty and his insecurity drives him to a frenzy - that is why you have such hatred, such strife on earth today. People in vast numbers are clinging to things which they no longer believe. But they have not been willing to listen. Therefore, in their ignorance, they destroy the secure person who threatens their security. That is why the person who is crucified is always calm and even happy in - the hour of his martyrdom. He is sure. -

Walter Voelker: How can we reach others and bring this to their attention?

Fletcher: I know of no way except individuals who experience God in some form - who have had the courage to look at what they are and what they have and what they believe through the lens of revelation and inspiration - then speak.

The Church is undergoing a transformation because it is inevitable at this particular point in history - the beginning of a New Age and the end of an old one. Even the Church with its holy traditions has to bring Christ down from the stained - glass window - take him from the altar put him in the hearts of men - let him walk the streets.

And the Christ always has as a symbol of his authority the child - and when the Christ was worshiped as a child, he was not worshiped by those in authority - it was by those who had lived and looked into the heavens and read the course of man.

Mr. Moon reminded me that in the Book of Revelation there is a picture of the New Jerusalem, the Holy City, coming down out of the heavens. And there was a door on the east and a door on the south, a door on the north and a door on the west - and when the teacher comes, he always has to come through the eastern gate. In the Holy City of Jerusalem there is an eastern gate long since sealed and blocked. It will never be opened until the new teacher comes.

From the east comes mysticism - a willingness to be absorbed in God - God is not something apart - he is something within. From the south comes all the beauty, the ritual - these things which adorn and make beautiful the message. From the north came rational thought clear thinking - reformation - and change. From the west came the critical, scientific analysis.

And now in the New Age, it is an age of orchestration - of a symphony - of unity. And the New Teacher will be neither Christian, Buddhist, Moslem, or anything else. The Holy Spirit speaks in universal terms - and God will no longer be fragmented. God will be the one God - who sent forth his Son not once but many times.

Anthony Brooke: At this point can you say something about the spirit that is appearing in England that calls himself Truth and who has been seen by some people in solid form?

Fletcher: That's Mr. Moon's projection - a form of apparition - the projection of the Spirit of Truth - who expresses himself through Mr. Moon. In other words, in the language of the occult mystery schools, its the astral or spiritual body of Mr. Moon projected and seen by those who are ready for it. You must remember that when Jesus of Galilee was crucified and buried - when he came back in his spiritual body he was seen only by those who had known him and whom he wanted to see him. Those who were not prepared did not see him. But then he spoke - on the Bay of Galilee he broke through all national boundaries and all tribal taboos - and every man heard the message in his own way. In other words, he became the Holy Spirit - the Whole Spirit speaking no longer only to Jews - but speaking to everyone from the then known world. lt's always the method of. .

Anthony Brooke: Can you say how near we are to such a breakthrough of universal truth?

Fletcher: You are in the process now. But before Jesus became manifest there were people who had been prepared - John the Baptist came prepared. But the world has grown and multiplied - the means of communication have become simpler and easier. It takes not one man in a little country to be a John the Baptist, but many men in many countries to herald the coming.

* * * * * * * * *

Sitting with Arthur Ford, March 18, 1965, 3:30 P.M.

Present: Mr. Sun Myung Moon, for whom the sitting was held; Col. Bo Hi Pak, former attaché of the Korean Embassy; Miss Kim, interpreter for Sun Myung Moon, Mr. Walter Voelker, the Rev. W. V. Rauscher, the Rev. Robert Lewis, and a group of Mr. Moon's friends from Korea, Japan, the United States, and other places.

Arthur Ford: I studied with Yogananda. He used the word "detachment," which means we completely detach from the objective. There's a larger mind. You never know what will happen. What happens, happens because of the people who are here.

When Fletcher comes, I am totally unconscious. That proves its complete detachment. I can't remember anything. It isn't merely hypnosis. Fletcher is using words through me, using my voice. Naturally, they don't use words over there. Words are physical sounds. He has to interpret thoughts and ideas, that sort of thing, and put them into words. And, of course, it's as St. Paul says, when he went up into the Third Heaven, he saw things and heard things which are unutterable. It's something you feel.

When Fletcher comes, we'll do the best we can. You can ask any questions you want, he'll tell you who's there. He will establish identities.

I haven't used this handkerchief since you were here before.

Col. Pak: I remember that handkerchief.

Arthur Ford: I do this, because its easier to go to sleep.

(At this point Arthur Ford went into trance.)

Fletcher: It is not easy for me to get down to the level of Ford. Great power in the form of light - if you were to see the light that surrounds you - most of you would be blinded by it. I am conscious that there are people here who are spiritually more advanced than some here and certainly more advanced than I am, though I have been here nearly fifty years. Time does not guarantee spirituality, nor does it necessarily suggest growth.

In another setting I would insist that my instrument and the rest of you should take off your shoes. But spiritually you can create the humility that will enable you to know that you are in the presence of Truth - Incarnate and Discarnate.

I am surrounded by people who are not the kind of people I usually interpret for. A man who is here speaks - he says he is grateful for the opportunity - he has something, somehow, to do with some of you. He gives the name of Kousik. It's K. K. - Kim Kousik. He shows me a paper which seems to bear his name. I read his name. I see the man. The paper I cannot read ...

It seems to me that there is one man here who was here before. Your name is Colonel or something. You , know who Kousik is?

Col. Pak: Yes, Kim Kousik was one of the political statesman in Korea.

Fletcher: He shows me a document which seems to have significance as if his name were on it. He says he regrets very much that Lee Wan Tong is not with you. Tong Wan Lee. Do you know who that is?

Col. Pak: Foreign Minister of Korean Government.

Fletcher: You have seen him lately?

Col. Pak: Yes, I saw him two days ago.

Fletcher: Tell him that he did well to come here.... This is the end of an age, and the battle that is raging is really Armageddon. It's a battle between the selfish, brutal men who do not think in terms of God or things which are associated with that word - against those peoples who will be the harbingers of the New Age. You are now in the new Age - and old things are being destroyed - and new things - which are eternal but which are new only because mankind has now reached the point where it is able to recognize them and use them.

And some of you in this room, some of you who come from other lands and some of you who are native to this land belong in the vanguard of the New Age. And there is a gentleman in the room who is one of those who will be used for the restoration of spiritual principles and truths which are eternal, but which have been lost because of the stupidity and the greed of men. You can safely follow him, because nothing that is in the universe that is real is ever destroyed - it changes form.

But there are many things in the minds and consciousness of men which are distortions of Truth and approximations of Truth and they are many times superstitions which have been grafted upon Truth. They do not destroy, but they present Truth in such a manner that it does not have significance or meaning to the people who are looking for salvation - which means only a restoration of the eternal affinity between the Creator and his creations. I don't know what they're talking about, but that's what he says.

Col. Pak: Could you ask him in connection with the New Age, more specifically, the mission of Our Leader here today?

Fletcher: He is one of those who will be the human instrument through whom the World Teacher will be able to speak. And he was chosen because the New Age can be ushered in only through the eastern gate of the City of God - and that gate has been sealed since Jesus was crucified. It cannot be opened until the New Age in which you are now entering and which you are in. When the teacher comes there would be a people ready for him.

The Jesus of Galilee will not return - it is not necessary. The Christ who manifested through him is the Eternal - he will manifest again. He has never ceased to speak to men but the time has come when, in the New Age, the veil which has been drawn between your plane and the World of Spirit will be pushed aside and those who have been freed from physical bondage will be able to speak and use and guide and teach the peoples of earth. That is being brought into manifestation everywhere.

But the important thing to remember is that when God wants to make a revelation (he has always done so and always will) he has to choose a human instrument, who, through some circumstances or conditions, has been brought to the point of sensitiveness and spiritual perception so that he can, in his own person, accept this ancient light of wisdom - and through him it will filter down to others, probably no less dedicated, but in truth, less gifted.

It is like a pyramid. At the peak stands the Teacher, the Leader, the Chosen One and under him, gradually there begins to build a foundation. The truth flows, down, and as it flows down it flows outward until it touches every comer of the earth. But it always starts with one man - and others are touched.

The Holy Spirit has not been quiet - and he has not been inactive. But there come periodically in the history of the race moments when the Holy Spirit has to individualize almost completely in some person - who becomes the instrument who will enable others to catch the Spirit and see the Spirit, and know the Spirit. And so they go in all directions, never separated from the source, but always individualized....

Sun Myung Moon is the one I have been talking about. I have been speaking for a group of people here. This group seems to surround him. And the power that flows through him, the intelligence, is not just one - it is a great group of people. And they seem all to draw their inspiration and their knowledge from One Source - and then they seem to pour it symbolically into a pool and in some strange symbolical way that pool becomes Sun Myung Moon.

As if All Experience - All Knowledge - All Spiritual Truth has always existed. It has been revealed at different times - through different people. But the one who reveals is concerned only that he speaks Truth and those who are ready and capable of accepting Truth or perceiving Truth they carry the message on. The revelators seldom live to see their revelations widely accepted. But they do always draw to them - and leave behind them - a group who continue the revelation.

Walter Voelker: May I ask a question, Fletcher? For persons like me, familiar with the teachings of Jesus and to whom the Divine Principles seem strange, can anyone tell the relationship between the "teachings of Jesus" and the "messages of Sun Myung Moon" so that I will not be confused?

Fletcher: I will have to speak for the people here. Truth never contradicts itself. Quite often what you call the teachings of Jesus may be - they often are - interpretations which men have made, and about which men have built institutions. You cannot, in your age, rely upon any ancient formula or any ancient definitions of God or man. The other religions develop dogmas and doctrines about both man and God. And when they declared them, science challenged them - and then chaos, confusion, set in.

In the age in which you are living, all the debris that has accumulated around Truth must be brushed aside , for all Truths become loaded with ideas, organisations, which grow up in the heart of devout people, but which have no relation really to the Truth itself. And so today you live in a time when men know a great many facts, but they haven't learned how to identify these facts - this data - with ideals. And a scientific knowledge without philosophical reflection can result in emptiness. And that is what you face.

You cannot limit God. And you cannot limit the possibilities of man, because man has within him individualized part of the God, of the Infinite. But if you try to build a life, a philosophy, or a religion only on those facts which you are able to perceive through your senses - and if you rely only upon sensory perception and experience, you will not find the Truth.

Scientific facts are important, but in themselves they tell you nothing. Scientific facts become meaningful only when they are used against a vast background of ideas and ideals. Therefore, what I am saying is that the Basic Truths are that God is and that man is his creation - and being God's creation began as a perfect being but through environmental conditions and through ignorance and - sometimes because of instinctual promptings which overpowered his divinity - man has lost that perfection which he bad as a creature of God. And man himself has created a dual universe.

There was no Evil in God's creation; there is no Evil in the Mind of God. But man through his own choice - and because he has yielded to the instinctual urges which are a heritage of his animal ancestry as a physical vehicle - has created a dual universe. And the purpose of the New Age is to restore that perfection, which can only be realized when man becomes completely God - centered and then into the social processes brings the qualities of justice and love and brotherhood, which are the attributes of the spiritual concept of God. Then you will demolish a dual universe.

And Satan, which is only the ancient word for Etemal Hatred, will be destroyed - because where there is love, there can be no hate, and that is what the prophets and Jesus himself prophesied "at the end of the age" not "the end of the world' - and you have ended that age and are entering now an age in which you will be compelled to subjugate those people who would destroy you. And you will be compelled to end the Battle of Armageddon. But it will be a victory in which all the selfish nationalism, the creeds, the hates that grow out of these things will be ended. It will not be finished in your lifetime, but your lifetime is not limited to this little expression through your physical bodies. You will still be a part of the chosen; you will still be a part of those who will be influencing and guiding and throwing light on the path of those who will build the Kingdom of God on earth.

You must not fall victim to the false idea that there is any such thing as a final truth once and for all delivered. Truth is a living, vibrant thing, because truth stems from God, and there is no conclusion; there is no goal except that ever expanding goal of God. But, in some strange way, the divine economy demands that every so often some man take upon himself a larger share of God and thus become the Voice of Truth. It has always been so and always will be so, and there will always be those who can be used.

God has no voice save the voice that is given to him by people who have risen to the point where they can comprehend and then extend his ideas....

Miss Kim: Do you mean the Christ of 2,000 years ago?

Fletcher: There was no Christ 2,000 years ago there was a man 2,000 years ago through whom the Anointed One was able to manifest. The man died - Christ lived - and, as the Holy Spirit, has been helping. You must remember that, when this man said, "I will be with you until the end of the age," it was not the Galilean speaking, it was the Incarnate Christ....

Miss Kim:Will there be many leaders in the New Age?

Fletcher: Even if there is a Christ he had to choose the twelve, and they, in turn, touched the lives of others. Because the message could not have been given if it had been limited to one man, to one race, to one group. But always, as this man said, it has to start with one man - and always the revelation is founded upon the truth once revealed, but it is added to, and expressed in terms not of yesterday, but of the future.... There must always be someone who can accept the responsibility of passing the truth on.

Col. Pak: You are speaking of New Revelation: that means you are speaking of - you refer to the Divine Principles brought by Sun Myung Moon?

Fletcher: That's a part of it, yes, but even Sun Myung Moon has not exhausted the possibilities of the Divine Mind.
He is, and - as long as he lives will continue to be, a channel for revelation.
The channel never ceases to flow; the fountain never dries up....
Always it will be the Spirit of Truth, who is not limited in any direction by either a group, a man, or anyone else - he uses one man or he may use a million men, but he is never limited.

The Spirit of Truth, like the sun, will light the whole world.

Miss Kim: Do you know that there should be one true father and mother - true parents for the New Age?

Fletcher: The Divine Mind or the Concept of God has - as a creative principle - God has within himself all the faculties or the qualities of both the male and the female. There can be no creative expression, there can be no life without these two qualities - the male and the female. So God is neither man nor woman. He sums up within himself all things.... There's a man who comes here, and he says that he wishes to speak. He seems to have known some of you. He gives the name of John Gilmer. He says he died in Seoul. Some of you from there? Seoul? John Gilmer, he says he was there and he knew and met some of you there. He was with the United Nations on some kind of an economic survey. And he says he was with Albert Wedemeyer.

Col. Pak: Yes, General Wedemeyer.... I knew his name.

Fletcher: He says that he comes because he died just recently, almost within days or hours, in Seoul, this John Gilmer. He says that he wants to tell you that there are in your land great possibilities, and they must be utilized. You must not forget that to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and heal the sick - all these things are as spiritual as it is to pray or to worship God. And you must translate your spiritual truth into those things which make for justice and for peace and for happiness - so that men can know God - because you cannot talk about God to men who are starving unless you present God in the form of bread. You cannot interest men in God if they are naked unless you can clothe them and keep them warm. And a man who is sick because of deprivation and unhappy conditions will not listen about God unless you help to relieve those conditions - then you have found God in action.... And now you enter a New Age - you have to live through Armageddon - you have to live through the death struggle of those who seek to perpetuate the old days - but you will emerge into the Light.... There is someone here who's been talking, several, but one who is talking in light, someone who gives the name Kim Koo.

Col. Pak: Yes, a martyred patriot in Korea.

Fletcher: I died that they might find freedom. Our land has never known the freedom even to worship God as our hearts told us to. We were always having foreign religious ideas imposed upon us. Now we have freedom - and so when that freedom was ours, Sun Myung Moon was used by the Holy Spirit, and is used by the Holy Spirit, and will be used by the Holy Spirit. Translate the things he tells you into activities that lift poverty and hunger and hate.

I can assure you that there will be no war that will destroy Korea or the world - even satan is wise enough to know when he must retreat. Error cannot live where the light of truth is to be found.

Walter Voelker: What advice does he have for us?

Fletcher:This man has a message - this man has no message - but the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, can speak through Moon more clearly more completely - than he is able to speak through any one individual today. It may take a long time for his truth to be realized in the hearts of men. But even the Christ had to have his John the Baptist to herald him - and then, after he came, he had to gather around him a group - and after his death that group bore witness - and it's a long time.

There is but one God. There is but one Christ. He may wear different names, because 'men speak different tongues, hut there is but one God, one Christ, one Spirit of Truth. Whenever that Spirit of Truth becomes vocal, you are wise to listen.

Remember to make the distinction between the Spirit of Truth, which is the Christ, and any individual with a human name. That name may become historically associated with the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit of Truth didn't begin with any man - it ends - with no man - it uses men. Right now it is using in a very remarkable way the man who is in your presence.

Col. Pak: May I ask you one thing? Our leader, Sun Myung Moon is a prince of the New Age. We feel that he has completed national scale restoration. Now his work is going on in the world on a universal scale. How will the world accept him? In his lifetime how much will the world be changed?

Fletcher: It was Kim Koo, who came because he said "even in effecting political and national and economic freedom we have to use people."

You have reached a point - the world has reached a point - where a person can speak in terms of principles. And remember that principles are flexible and are capable of being applied individually. They are adaptable to culture and to wisdom. A principle is the reality behind law. Most of you are no longer spiritually under law. Law is a fixed and sometimes cruel and heartless and ruthless thing. You have grown spiritually to the point where you live on principle, which is the truth behind law. Primitive people still need the law. God is able to make himself understood in terms and in manner that is understood - and that is adapted to the culture in which it is sprinkled. Strange thing. Does the name Indra mean anything?

Col. Pak: It could be a Korean womans name.

Fletcher: Whoever this woman is, she says something about some kind of a memorial - it looks like it's a symbol - a picture of what will grow and it is no mere accident that it happened in Pusan. A memorial to people of all nations. And that memorial was consecrated and dedicated by representatives of every one of the world religions who came together on the soil of Korea to build a memorial, not to the people of one race - one religion. And Kim Koo says it is no accident that on the 2lst of last August representatives of every race and every religion gathered in Pusan to build some kind of a sacred something which is a symbol of what will grow out and spread over the world and it has something to do with some kind of a memorial. It was established just a few days after this holy 15th of August. What's the 15th of August?

Col. Pak: The 15th of August is the day we celebrate the birth of freedom, the Independence Day of Korea.

Walter Voelker: May I ask a question, Fletcher? Do we have within ourselves a guide that tells us what is God's will? Or do we take in an authoritarian way the opinion or statement of another, such as Sun Myung Moon, without qualifications?

Fletcher: The - Spirit speaks to spirit and every one of you has within you something - an individualized part. of that whole which you call God. Truth may flow to everyone, it is not limited to any one man. Always there are illumined souls who can become teachers, guides, and through whom the truth can flow more fully. It did through Christ - it did through Buddha - it did through others. But none of these people - and neither does Mr. Moon himself claim to be God - he only claims, like Jesus and the others, to be an instrument through whom the Spirit of Truth is able to speak. And when the Spirit of Truth speaks through any man, no matter who it is, listen. When he speaks more fully, listen more carefully....

Col. Pak: When you are talking about the new revelation, through Sun Myung Moon, in our New Age - the perfection which was impossible to achieve before - throughout all history - will now be achievable for all people through Sun Myung Moon. Is that the idea?

Fletcher: It is possible. But it is not likely that everyone will accept it, because it needs education and it will take time. Nobody can give away perfection. Perfection was the ideal, and perfection was mans goal from the beginning, but man choose himself to loose that perfection, and she must now choose to return to it. But it is really true that no one can return to his homeland which he has forgotten, if not someone gives hi a map or leads him along that road.

Col. Pak: In other words, man in todays world is dependant of this new truth, new revelation to be accepted.

Fletcher: Yes.

Col. Pak: Do you have any advise to the followers of Sun Myung Moon - in other words the disciples?

Fletcher: Yes. They are doing right - because a disciple is simply a disciple - who finds a teacher and sits by his feet and learn.

Miss Kim: Should the Christians all over the world continue to follow Jesus of Nazareth or the Divine Principles?

Fletcher: The Christians all over the world have never followed Jesus of Nazareth as a man they have only followed Christ who was incarnate for a little while in the person of Jesus - you must make the distinction. It is not going to be possible for anyone to suddenly sweep all the religious peoples of the world into one group. It is a process of education into a part of the world where Christ was not - known, and where his teachings were presented very poorly by those who claimed to represent him.

It was necessary that Mr. Moon should come.

God had to have some man through whom the Spirit of Truth could speak, because the missionaries were not speaking in the same language - they were all presenting a different picture. There is but one Spirit of Truth. And so the distortions of men have always made it necessary for someone to become the revelator....

Col. Pak: Could you give me some forecast of our leader's work, the teaching and educational process of this new truth, in the United States?

Fletcher: First of all, he must be willing to listen, to speak, and then have his words translated - and they will be translated into many languages. But you cannot expect the message to be accepted immediately by vast numbers of people only those who are ready and who are willing to listen and to whom this particular message seems to be right and meaningful. That is the way that all the world teachers have had to go. And remember one thing only, that if it is of God, it can not fail. And it is of God.

But Mr. Moon is just one in a long line of people who have been used as revelators - he is not the last - he is not the first - but in this hour, he is being used in a great way. And his message will be heard. Does that answer your question?

This is the thing to remember (and with this I must go - the power is waning) - this is the thing I would leave with you - that any man who has the good fortune to find a teacher of truth, and that teacher speaks to his need and to his heart, that man is under a divine compulsion to sharehis joy and his knowledge, and, if possible, lead others so that each may stand in the presence of his teacher - and enter into an experience of his own.

But never make the mistake of associating the truth which flows from any man, through any man, of identifying it completely with that man. The Spirit of Truth uses men. It is not a man.

Walter Voelker: Quick question, Fletcher, please. What is my greatest weakness? What is the weakness that you see in other persons like us here?

Fletcher: I see just what we all see here - a great confusion in the minds of men everywhere because ancient formalism, traditions are being struck down in the light of new knowledge. You have almost reached the point - world - wide as men, incarnate men - where you seem to know everything, understand nothing.

Gather your data, gather your knowledge, listen to your teachers. But remember there's always a vast dimension of spiritual power and truth, and until you are able to become aware of that, all the knowledge, all the facts, all the data mean nothing, because it doesn't cohere. God is the coherent - the integrative - the symphonic power in the universe.

You are very fortunate to have a man who can be used so greatly to lift the pall of spiritual darkness. It is no accident that Mr. Moon was chosen because he was born into a part of the world, where at this particular moment, the battle is raging most fiercely. He will be able, through his influence and the people whom he reaches with the message to turn the Battle of Armageddon into victory in the East. I can only repeat the vision of John, that when the New Age comes, the Eastern Gate will open, and not only man - but Revelation - will flow out of that gate. I have been speaking for a group of people. Now, there's just one man who says he wants to speak to these young clergymen. He also wants to speak to Col. Pak. Did you attend the war crimes trials?

Col. Pak: Yes, during the war.

Fletcher: There's a man here who says he knows some of the people that know these young clergymen. He says that he was appointed to defend Tojo as a war criminal of Japan. This man says, "I am an American and it is interesting that I used to go to the Episcopal church in Paoli. I was with the Army - with MacArthur and I was appointed, because I was an advocate, to defend Tojo. I lost the case, and I rather hoped I would I did not care about winning the case." And he said, "Just a little while ago, I was killed by a train in Paoli, recently. My name is George Bluitt. I was in Korea."

And this man, John Gilmer, says, "Things will be better."

Col. Pak: He is speaking to me personally or to the group?

Fletcher: He met you somewhere along the way. He says, "I stood by the side of Charles Joy- General Joy".

Col. Pak: Admiral Joy.

Fletcher: When you are dealing with a man who does not believe in God, then you are dealing with a man capable of any cruelty, because life has no meaning - there is nothing sacred- there is no truth - there is only that thing which I want at this moment and which I am willing to get whatever I have to do. This is the kind of person Tojo was - the kind of person we dealt with on the 38th parallel.

Col. Pak: When he said things will be better - things are looking better - was he speaking of our movement?

Fletcher: Your movement and the world generally - because you are living through the death agony of an old order. It takes time for the New Age to discard the debris, the accumulated stupidities of the order - they go and they are going.

Col. Pak: One question. Do we have to overcome the greater degree of a kind of persecution or oppression while we are enforcing our spiritual movement in this world?

Fletcher: Every spiritual movement has to meet opposition even from other spiritual movements, because you have to, by your lives, demonstrate that you have something that is superior. No argument will win the victory in a spiritual contest - except the transformed personality. You have it, sir. Others have it.

Gordon Ross: Will you say when the New Age began? What year?

Fletcher: The New Age moved in gradually - it has been gradually coming for half a century, but four years ago - - - Never make the mistake of saying Christ was born - Jesus was born in Bethlehem - Christ the Incarnate One used his body - he lived before - and he lives now. I have to go now. Bless you all. Go happily, and go determined to preach your truths in the only way that they will be effective.

Miss Kim: Have you anything to ask for Mr. Moon?

Fletcher: Yes. I ask for him that those who have been blessed by knowing him and whose lives have been made better because of him and the things the Spirit of Truth has been able to speak through him hold up his hands - shelter him - and feed him with their love. Give him your whole support - not because he is Mr. Moon - but because he is an instrument through whom God is revealing himself more completely than he can through many people. You understand?

Thank you. Now - goodbye.

Remarks by Sun Myung Moon as interpreted by Bo Hi Pak

Arlington, Virginia, - April 21, 1965

Note: This is typed from a simultaneous translation from Sun Myung Moon's words in Korean to Col. Bo Hi Pak's English and full allowance should be made for what may appear to be awkward phrases.

* * * * * * * * *

It is indeed my pleasure to welcome you today.

We have so many people here on earth but very few know the World of Spirit and consequently few know truly about God. Also, we have lack of knowledge about satan, those opposing forces against God all these years. It is true that God is here - and satan is . History has been the record of humanity - Man - between the will of God and the will of satan. This is our sacred responsibility - those who are coping in the field of religion - and those who are endeavoring in the World of Spirit to derive the answer from the very Cause - the very Origin.

I have been devoting my whole life in the journey of the seeker -- seeker of the truth -and research of the work in the field of religion.

My endeavor now comes to the point that it must be manifested and fulfilled. My utmost interest is focused upon two major points. ONE, the liberation of humanity - the true liberation I mean - the liberation from sin -- liberation from the bondage of evil forces. This is my focus of attention and this is my very endeavor in which I am dedicated; and SECOND, how I can remedy or rectify the broken heart of God - how the sorrow of God can be interpreted and learned by all people. In other words, how can we liberate the World of Spirit as well as the Physical World from the bondage of satan. You may not know very well, but I say that I am a rather controversial person, maybe not in this world as yet, but certainly in the World of Spirit.

In order to draw the answer, the solution for the world in which we live - I term it the external world - we must draw the answer from the inward world - inward which is Spirit.

We should realize that the World of Spirit is also a Creation of GOD - and God created the Spirit World in his PRINCIPLES so this Spirit World is not a mysterious world - this is a world of PRINCIPLE. Therefore, if we discover the PRINCIPLE we certainly have the ability to understand and cope with the World of Spirit.

The war against evil forces here on earth is in the midst of the battle - but weapons cannot be found here -- and we must draw our answer and our power from the SOURCE OF ORIGIN which is Spirit World -~- and that PRINCIPLE must be found by earthly men -the victorious standard must be established before this World - ~ over there. Once this victorious standard is established or won in the Spirit World, then unity comes first in the World of Spirit. Therefore all these other things done - - until the battle is won - after the showdown is made in the Spirit World - - it is spirit mans responsibility - they have to witness - - to carry witness - - to carry messages to the earthly plane in which we live.

Throughout my life I have met many, many spiritual persons - sensitives ~ and many famous ones. And they often speak of my mission because they knew since the cause has been determined already; in other words, the showdown has already been made.

The World of Spirit is one unified world. Therefore when one big event or happening occurs in that world - it becomes known to everyone in that realm. Therefore they could carry the witness -- bear the witness. I have many followers who have been lead by the spirit for many years, sometimes ten years, then they are suddenly lead to me.

I am very happy to welcome my dear friend, Mr. Arthur Ford. Now you will come to the point that you will taste some unusual experience. Here in this room you will see two worlds meet at one point -- the World of Spirit and the world in which we live. Those who have never experienced this thing before may feel strange and confused but I would like to stress this point - the World of Spirit is also the world that God created. That world is run by one same PRINCIPLE of God. It is not a world of confusion. It is not the world of chaos. It is more organised and a more systematic world than this. Therefore I hope you will come to a deeper understanding of the great contribution our dear friend, Mr. Ford, is making to humanity - Also, I am begging and asking you he needs concentration- that those who are here in this room must not divert the attention ~~ please be cooperative with him and be centered upon this one phenomena which you are going to see.

And I would like to conclude my greeting to you by saying that I have my own experiences. I have many stories and many messages to tell- I hope I will have opportunity to express my own experiences later. But one thing is sure, we all are here to erect or fulfill the will of God here on earth - his kingdom to be established and we are moving toward this common goal - this common endeavor - for God.

Thank you for your coming.

* * * * * * * * *

3. Arthur Ford Sitting, Arlington, Virginia - April 21. 1965

Arthur Ford: May I explain this, I am happy to be here, I have had the pleasure of sitting for your Leader and before that for some of the rest of you. We came today because we wanted to sit at his feet and learn from him. But he wants me to go into trance and what I am going to do is always an experiment. If we ask a discarnate to manifest on earth for even a moment, he has to have an instrument or vehicle suitable for that, so he borrows either the mind or any of the senses that he needs of a human being, In my case, I go to sleep because I was trained by a yoga, In this state of unconsciousness in which my objective mind is pushed aside there is a personality called Fletcher comes through. I believe Fletcher is what he claims to be, and I've checked on him and there was such a person. Other people have different ideas - it doesn't matter. The fact remains that Fletcher for 40 years or more in all parts of the world has been able to gather information that I could not normally gather I've brought with me today several people who have had experience with the Fletcher sittings and I think they will help to guide you any way you need. In a group like this there is not much chance of getting personal messages, not because they are not there, but for two reasons: that is not what we are here for; and the second reason is the time - The trance seldom goes over 45 minutes or an hour.

I am glad to let Fletcher come in - What Fletcher will say to you, I do not know. Two things I ask you to remember; consciously I do not remember what I have said, and the other thing is that Fletcher never speaks for himself - Fletcher has no opinions. He interprets ideas and symbols, and puts them into words which you can understand. I think that in a limited sense this is what happened on Pentecost when the twelve suddenly began to speak in languages they did not know, and to preach the gospel. There is no other explanation except that some discarnate spoke through them. They were not speaking in unknown tongues. They were speaking in "other" tongues. It's a matter of degree and not of kind. When Fletcher comes, I hope he gives you something worth while. This is not the sort of thing I am used to doing. Fletcher said at the last sitting for Mr. Moon that he felt very inadequate to speak and interpret for the kind of people who came to Mr. Moon. However, I am sure he will do the best he can for you. I do this (putting blind fold over eyes) because so many people think all these things take place in dark rooms. I will leave on the light. I hope you always will be in the Light.

Fletcher: Greetings. My name is Fletcher. I am very honored that Mr. Moon wanted me to interpret for some of the people here who are interested in the things that he does for it is a continuation of work which they began on earth. It is a hope that some dream we dreamed might some day be realized in form. They are many.

There are men here I have seen before because they have somehow become a part of the group consciousness. - A man who says that he looks around and sees young people who are here and young people whose minds became ready for an open frank facing of truth and some of them because of a little contribution I made. This man has spoken before; he says he founded a newspaper, he founded colleges. And, he says, I knew about your Leader as a man in a small country would know where there was a deep current of spiritual power and dedication flowing. Our country needs that. He sounds like Su Si Koo. I have spoken to my friend, Pak. And there is someone here who has been to a college at some place called Pusan. He greets you. And he brings with him a man who helped to shape his thinking - who helped him to find through a study of the words of Jesus, the meaning behind democracy, This man, he says, is Alexander Pieters. This man says, I went to Korea many years ago. I went to save what I thought were the heathens. I lived to find my soul and to find my destiny. And I like to think that. (I'm interpreting and these are not his words exactly but he is fluent in your tongue because he tells me that he was able to translate the New Testament into your tongue). And with the help of Edmund Soper I had the opportunity of presenting a dictionary.

Voice -, I think Mr. Soper was a missionary.

Miss Kim. We don't know him personally.

Voice: Did he have something to do with founding a school in Posan?

Col. Pak: The person who appeared first - Kim Song Soo I understand founded a school in Pusan, and college or university in Seoul.

Fletcher:. It was through my friend Alex that I learned the true meaning of democracy.

And Pieter says that he hopes Brother B. will extend my greetings - it' funny, he says give my greetings to someone named Lord. Send my greetings to the Lord.

Is there someone named Lord?

Dr. B.: Bishop Lord is the bishop of the Washington area.

Fletcher: He was a Methodist, he says. He says he is here because of Mr. Moon although he won 't remember me because of the multitude that came - I once had a long talk with him. I told you about it once before I think, did he not - I'll not repeat except that he is here today with this other man and they want to speak. Alex says that his friend Soper, whoever he was is here. I don't know who that is do you?

Miss Chea: I think it is the name of an American missionary in Korea.

Fletcher: No, he says he was not. He was, he says, God forgive me, a theolog.

(Laughter in the background)

Col. Pak: Could you ask Mr. Alexander Pieter about the mission, in his terms of Sun Myung Moon.

Fletcher: Yes. You are now entering the New Age of which prophecy spoke. You are in it. What you are witnessing around the world - the things which frighten you - that make you fearful of the future - are simply the death rattle of an age that is dying. And the prophetic souls of the past have spoken of teachers who will come, and Jesus himself said, I will send the Spirit of Truth, and he will guide you. "And he said, I will be with you until the end of the age." Not the end of the world.

He knew that in the few decades that lie ahead the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, will speak through many men and touch the lives of many people. But Jesus, the historical Jesus, has kept his promise. He is no longer as a person too deeply concerned. He was - as many of you will be - he was an instrument, a vehicle, through whom an incarnation took place. And the continuation of the incarnation the Christ, not Jesus, but a Christ, is the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit has never been silent - never been inactive. And in this age you are moving from a limited universe into the universe in which the creative spiritual force that is called God - in many names ~ and worshiped in many ways - will touch the hearts of people, and many prophecies will be fulfilled.

The Holy Spirit is the Whole Spirit of God. He is not limited to one group, one man, one church, one nation, one race. And out of the truth that has been revealed will come a new structure. And into this will be poured the basis, the elemental, the eternal truths that are coursing. And from that will grow a religion that you can call Christian, Buddhist - you can call it anything you want. It will be a religion of the Spirit and all the creations of superstition will be gradually sloughed off.

R.M.: Fletcher, what role is Sun Moon to be playing in all this?

Fletcher: In his time and in his place he is one of those chosen, as men have always been chosen, to be a revelator - to be, in the language you speak, a sounding board for the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit of Truth speaks through him. The Spirit of Truth will speak through the humblest one, here or anywhere who is willing to listen.

M.B.: Fletcher, you mentioned that there would be many manifestations, and this is not confined to one group. What are some of the hallmarks or the criteria that one looks for in which these people seem to be identified other than their own identification of themselves. Is there anything that we should look for because there are many prophets these days and many of these manifestations, apparently.

The world has known many saviors. The very word savior means a healer. Mr. Moon is one who is to heal, not simply the bodies, but the minds and the spirits of men. And when a person is healed he is free. When a person is healed he is saved, if he continues in gratitude and humility. Mr. Moon's contribution will be simply that of all those who have been redemptive in the history of mankind. He will speak not of things which men argue about - he will not put words like wings under his own opinions - he will speak of basic things out of which every spiritual yearning and aspiration must grow. He will speak of an eternal God. And he will speak of that God in action through men. And he will help you, as Jesus tried to help you - and which so many of you have forgotten - that the man who is spiritually healed and free is no longer under law. Law is a rigid thing - it helps you to find through your senses a great many things. But when a man lifts his consciousness spiritually, he is free from the law, and he lives by Principles. Law is for the ignorant - limited. Law in another sense is for the man who would plumb the secrets of the physical creation. Behind law there is a reality, and the reality is Principle. Law can be cruel. Principle is kind. Law is rigid. Principle is fluid. Law governs three-dimensional man. Principle builds and sustains the real man which is the individualized part of God within.

There is one thing that will distinguish both science and religion tomorrow - and has already been sounded by men like Mr. Moon and others - that is that everything physical and spiritual is a manifestation of the creative spiritual worship of God - and apart from that there is nothing.

Col. Pak: Fletcher, may I ask you this? Mr. Sun Myung Moon has been, as you testified, a spokesman of God to reveal the truth known to us as Divine Principles. He has many followers around the world. Now there is certain confusion among the Christians. They feel that following Mr. Moon's teaching - it somehow gives them a confusion against the teachings of Jesus Christ and therefore would you clarify his mission in relationship with the mission of Christ - and how the two things differ - how the two are the same.

Fletcher: Very simply. All religions crystallize. Jesus never used the word "religion". He spoke of life, and love, and God in action. Religions are all man-made. A priesthood develops. Every sort of material thing enters in. Men are jealous of their opinions and they cling to their traditions. There is no truth - never has been any truth once and for all delivered to the saints.

Truth is God. And truth is a growing expanding thing. It always comes through people who are able to lift themselves above the level of consciousness on which most men are forced to live and who become aware - and then become vocal - and so become redeemers. Mr. Moon is one of those who is directing the thought of people back to these simple Principles stripped of all superstition, stripped of all ecclesiastical and religious symbolism. He is doing exactly what Jesus in his life tried to do - what every man who has ever been a channel of revelation has tried to do. God has never had anything to reveal to man except these two things: ( 1) that God is and (2) that Man is a part of the Divine Creation. And what God is, in their concept, every man is in the process of becoming. Mr. Moon is not antagonistic - (in nothing he says).

But he (Col. Pak) asks the question - why is there opposition . Read the history of the saints. Read the history of the reformation. Read the history of the church. It is not a very pretty record. But every man who has ever dared to proclaim a spiritual experience, and tried to make it meaningful to others has either become a martyr - or the thing, the experience, has been transformed by others into a dogma. God forbid that this should happen again. The world is now in the process of change. Within the next two decades even nations will cease to exist in the old sense. Sectarianism which is an artificial barrier erected by devout men, but limited in their vision, will perish. The great heresies of the past have centered around dogmas, traditions. Men who violated those or refused to believe them have suffered.

WV- Do you have advice for us?

Fletcher: Yes. Listen to every man who speaks out of experience. Know that the Holy Spirit is manifesting, guiding, directing. He speaks in many tongues. He is not limited. He is the Whole Spirit of Truth. And his message is shaded to the understanding and the need of those to whom he speaks. But the eternal Principle behind it is always the same ~ GOD - and Man - in relationship each to the other.

The great heresies of the future will not be as they were in the past. The heresies of the future will be these: You will be outside the fold of Gods people if you hate - you will be outside the fold if you engage in violence - you will be outside the fold because you will have turned your back on God. God will not have turned his back on you . And when you turn your back upon God you face the negative pole, and that is symbolized by satan. Satan is the name for Eternal Hatred. Of course, at any moment, you can turn - and face God - love, service - a refusal to be snared by material things or interests - a dedication to truth at the expense of hallowed institutions.

The religion of tomorrow will not be called Christian as you know it now. You are already living in a New Age, a post-Christian age. Principles of the Christ are not limited to any age. The institutions which men have builded about the revelations of the past will not be important in a very few years. Mr. Moon is one who comes into a part of the world where there has been great suffering - and where the pressure of cruel screaming materialism hangs like a destructive cloud. He will help to dispel it. And every man will do that everywhere. He is one of the revelators - Listen to him.

He is a fortunate man who has found a teacher who does not mouth pseudo-truths, who strips away everything to hide you from the only truth - that God is - that God is in you. And God is holding out his hands and calling you because he needs your hands, he needs your voices, he needs your eyes, he needs your dedication - not to him - God needs nothing from you - you can't give him anything - but God needs you because other people need you. And your religion, your revelation, will be without meaning until it is translate into redemptive love and saving service - until you build a picture of the future which when men look upon it ?

Col. Pak: May I ask? Mr. Moon is revelator, you said, and you spoke of incarnation of the Truth. In other words are you speaking of "revelator" in terms of incarnation of the Spirit of Truth?

Fletcher: Wherever the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, as Jesus calls it, wherever that Spirit touches a man and heals him and guides him, that man has become a vessel in which the Holy Spirit finds a place of action. In some people a complete personality is changed till when you look upon it you may say this must be some old teacher returning. They thought that about Jesus - because they see a person whom they have known, but they see him from a different angle. And when a man is transformed by an experience of truth, then he views everything - everywhere in a different way. You do well to follow Mr. Moon. But Mr. Moon does not include within himself all of God. He includes more of God than any of you - but that God seeks through him to completely enfold you into the One - so that you may find yourself in peace.

WV: Could you tell us very briefly whether we should work within our churches or form a new movement? And what is this revelation briefly?

Fletcher: The revelation is the same thing that every saviour has brought to the world.

MB: Then what is new about this, Fletcher?

Fletcher: There is nothing new. There is nothing new, but there is much that man has forgotten - and organised religions of all kinds have forgotten to a large degree the thing for which they were organised. That is why there is such restlessness, such seeking, on the part of people everywhere.

MB: Fletcher, we should not keep you too long. I feel that you have more than satisfied the desires and interests of the group here. We are very appreciative.

Thank you, Fletcher.

Fletcher: The light that you see will be that radiance which comes from men who are sick of war, sick of hate, and sick of everything - and who in desperation will live to face it and reflect the light of God. Good-bye.

* * * * * * * * *